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Sep 21, 2017 #11 Cleck .308 Win Messages 2,686 Reaction score 2,364 Location Under the cloak of the Empire Airborneguy said: For AR's at least: Caldwell Accumax AR-15 Barrel Cooler : Cabela's Seems gimmicky, but also seems like it would work. The 20-50 degrees in decreasing delta t that the 115 degree air causes is very low compared to the delta t caused by the combustion of the cartridges adding heat to the barrel. Once you pick a method, stay with it, and do it the same way between every shot. Levers and side pressure plates on the top allow the inside distance between the ears of the sandbag to be quickly adjusted. It depends on what you are looking for. This one should be a pretty simple test but feel free to ask any questions. Shot 3, 5 shot groups, letting the barrel cool between groups. Each year, many shooters honorably donate prizes, adding a wonderful camaraderie atmosphere. Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: Why are you testing "best groups"? All Sgt. I tried all kinds of things. Particularly nowadays. Need an offhand open sights only ML rifle, a fire starter, a tomahawk, and a throwing knife with I will be buying one promptly. Do your sight in spacing the shots. Only six extra points possible for fire-starting. RIFLES Works good. can easily be 100 degF. Keep your barrel cool, and your shots on target. By leaving it on continuously the barrel cools between shots and during cease fires or "whiz breaks". Im not sure what youre asking? 30-40* weather, I like to wait about 3 minutes. The use of PCCA will be strictly at the discretion of the match director. They must have a "U," "V," or rectangular opening, as wide at the top as any part of the notch. Using the TMS bullets as prescribed should extend the life of a barrel by at least one third. Always use the same amount and type of cleaning solution to stay consistent. I may get a chance to go to the range and shoot 15 test round today to see if the group closes up to what that load produced early on. The magneto speed was at the bottom of performance. Anyhoo. Like I said, everybody has a favorite procedure for accuracy-testing rifles. That protocol has since changed to five-shot groups with no barrel cooling between shots. In a hunting rifle I shoot 3 in a row looking for first shot and follow up shot consistency. No but the design doesnt make any sense at all were trying to cool the throat. In energy storage applications the energy density relates the energy in an energy store to the volume of the storage facility, e.g. Ill shoot anywhere from 2-4 minutes. This is a very compact cooler to add to your range bag. The water is caught by the bucket and reused until it becomes too hot. While a carbon barrel will not hold as much heat as a steel barrel they will give up heat quicker. (The high pitched whine sounds like a vaccuum cleaner) But, being an engineer, and wanting to build a better mousetrap, I attempted to improve on this idea. Another shoots five-shot groups and gives the barrel five minutes to cool between shots. It wouldn't be to hard to make a dummy case with a barb for a hose to pump the water from the chamber to the muzzle and return it to a tank to recycle the water. When Im at the range or shooting Sage Rats I use a Coleman battery powered air pump. One of the two Rick Graham flags I am now using has a larger vane than the other. The cooler the ambient temperature the faster I can shoot and the quicker the resting rifles cool off. I have done this many times on various barrels without negative effects. In the summer with ambient temps of 75 or higher, I would typically wait 5-7 minutes. Their guns are designed to shoot FAST.before the wind condition changes. door latch stuck Step 3: Cut the Barrels. I always seem to have a flyer or 2 in every group. the fuel tank. The article originally appeared in the June 2019 issue of Gun Digest the Magazine. A varmint rifle wearing a Harris folding bipod is an example. (Ret.) Here's how our match-winning, worldwide-hunting, venerable field editor does it. The first condition occurs when several shots are fired very quickly -- little heat can move from the barrel into the receiver. For cold bore accuracy testing, I can wait 3hrs between shots. Thanks for putting this together. You must be a member of the Alvin C York Memorial shoot to participate. I can control the heat. IF WE LIE TO THE GOVERNMENT IT'S A FELONYWHEN THEY LIE TO US IT'S POLITICS. But I dont go over a 5 shot string without cooling, unless Im wanting to see if there is any shift with a real hot barrel. Tip #7 Pouring the Powder into the Barrel, Tip #9 Black Powder Sizes 1F, 2F, 3F, 4F. Bull? No difference. Nov 2, 2022 13:20:53 GMT -5 . Cuts cooling time in half compared to regular convection, and the Caution Yellow paintjob complies with approved chamber flag color standards. Cooling the barrel between shot strings. Each physically challenged contestant will be issued one adapter to set their chunk on. The 30th Sgt. In your research have practitioners of 'barrel cooling' experienced longer tube life? I rifle built and assembled correctly will continue putting rounds into the true group size until it melts. I believe that focusing on the steel is ideal for returning to a cooled barrel. Water off, couple dry patches, and he was done. The sausage-shaped bag measures 4 inches in diameter by 8 inches long, is filled with lead shot, and weighs 25 pounds. Sep 13, 2017. bsumoba. Like it has been said all my hunting rifles get shot for 2 shot groups with no extended range sessions. It's a small water pump that creates a mist, and if you fill it with ice water it will work miracles. 1,040. Sure is hot down here. Shoot one shot and 'feel' the bbl temp. Blowing down the barrel from the muzzle end is strictly forbidden. PCCA Maybe it'll be somewhat useful information even though it'll be specific to one rifle/barrel/caliber and and there's an infinite number of variables. I started by going up and down with short strokes like I was cleaning the gun. Could probably even put some ice in it. Usually 3-5 shots with 30 second spacing between shots is all I want to take. It would be enormously appreciated if each of us would put a little extra effort into our clothing and accouterments, providing the best historical ambiance for the shoot! The adjustment screws will be covered with either wax or tape. Since everyone uses a bore guide, one fellow simply used a small bilge pump and a plastic hose, hose into the back of the bore guide, and let it flow until his next relay. Scoring This rifle was most likely made in 1915 or 1916 with an eye to a military light machine gun or automatic rifle contract - which never happened. That protocol has since changed to five-shot groups with no barrel cooling between shots. One fouling shot is then fired, followed by shots for record. Maybe Im the odd one but when shooting groups I want to know what the barrel is doing from cold to hot and without breaking my position. This one should be a pretty simple test but feel free to ask any questions. It shouldn't hurt barrel life nor the grouping. Its first few groups at 100 yards exceeded 2 inches, so all subsequent groups fired by it contained five holes in the paper. Just WOW on this thread. I do this because factory technicians are quite good at developing loads capable of delivering levels of accuracy ranging from acceptable to excellent whenfired in a large number of mass-produced rifles from various manufacturers. Good job. Wait a few minutes between shots if you want but I wouldn't shoot or pour anything down the bore. In a more leisurely era, the cure to a hot barrel was time. I have tried water an it is more of a pain than I am willing to deal with. I believe you can never go wrong with 1 minute. I'm not sure it really cooled back down until it was in the air conditioned car, "When you are shooting to test "best groups" how long do you wait between shots to ensure the barrel isn't heating too much?". Thank you in advance, smoker Just my .02 but your poi is most likely going to walk as the barrel heats up. SIGHTS T If your rifle is spraying shots all over the target, check your scope mounts. We have experienced flooding in the areas. If you don't like this method then don't do it. No in-line actions or thumbhole stocks will be allowed. Range rules for the Sergeant Alvin C. York Memorial shoot Pall Mall Tennessee For me it depends on the cartridge. I wanted to see which brand would group the best. Through the years benchrest shooter Rick Graham has made hundreds of wind flags for his fellow competitors. You are using an out of date browser. Please consider this when choosing clothing for the event and shooting accouterments such as shooting boxes and loading tables. Tip #5 Removing Oil from Inside Nipple, Drum and Barrel Before Shooting. All general practice range safety rules are strictly enforced, and we stress. Cooling Barrel between shots. They were pretty stout loads to boot. Shoot it and when it is shot out replace it. Note the difference. One charge is good for about 40 shots. Get your fire tube fired up, and a distant target is about as clear as the back of a cataract. I hate having to wait 20 min between shots but don't want to hurt accuracy. I wish i could have my car closer to the shooting station! Those were the days when most ranges didnt have an hourly rate akin to electricians, dentists and ladies-of-the-night. I dont see the point of even bringing it if its not going to serve its only function which is cooling a barrel the barrel cool and the riflekuhl hardly move any air so theyre not gonna do anything relatively speaking for cooling a barrel. Some shooters keep their cleaning patches in a separate container and pour alcohol on the patches till they are all damp. In regards to shots fired from the cold bore compared to those not, the only sniper I know well said "shooting a guy is shooting a guy". I keep a Thermos of ice water, a six ounce squirt bottle, bore guide, cleaning rod and patches handy. Fan was 40 mm sq, and operated around 10K RPM, the type used in thin server computers. Varmint rifles and rifles used for competitive shooting are tested with five-shot groups. Thanks for the information guys wanted to check and see if what I have been doing is right. It works for me and I have had no negative effects in ten years of doing it on many barrels. Sep 28, 2013. I know it would be good for patterning cold bore shots, and for cooing down between series of fire to keep velocities in check. I just remov bolt let it sit 10min after every 5shot.. ive seen so much guys making it more complicated. Reviving an older thread as I came across Ryans YouTube review. Thank You. Five extra points each, for pre-1840s dress, loading from a pouch, or using a flintlock rifle (.75 I let it sit like that while I'm setting up the bench. However, no adjustment is allowed to the sites after the beginning of the competition. People worry way too much about barrel cooling. I have used cold wet rags on my varmint rigs with good results. I carry both the Rifkekuhl and the Barrel Cooler in my range bag and have been using the Barrel Cooler exclusively. The ambient air is humid, has water present, even if you don't blow through the tube. Learn the difference between revolvers and semi-auto pistols and what makes them different. It did outperform all the others in the quantity of air moved category . Decided to try some 5 shot groups rather than the 3 shot ones I have been posting. Depending on the size of your barrel, the cooling time can vary. Switching tops takes mere seconds. They are all just as portable. May be either flint or percussion in traditional hunting or traditional target style. I cut it off twice and it's still too short! The simplest thing is a pumpup garden sprayer with plain ol water and a nozzle to fit the chamber and run water through the barrel for about 15 sec. If a big-game rifle is capable of keeping three bullets close to or inside an inch at 100 yards, I could not care less about its five-shot accuracy. Thanks for all the replies and for all the, uh.er..wisdom. 4. The solutions to this problem is running either a dry patch or slightly damp patch with a cleaning jag in between each shot. I think I'll take a thermocouple and see how fast the heat dissipates once i get my carbon barrels up and running. I'll look into getting a 2nd device. First, of a barrel "walks" when it heats up, it is defective and need to be fixed. A sporter barrel is a rifle barrel that is designed with a taper from a medium thickness in the barrel near the chamber, transitioning to a lighter thickness near the crown. Over the next few months I will be comparing a few of the barrel coolers on the market. A forum community dedicated to shooting sports, firearm owners, and enthusiasts. Back when I was into 3 Gun competition, some stages required emptying several AR-15 magazines. So to me, carbon will both absorb and dissipate heat at a slower rate. Among the more interesting features is a 50-micron replaceable filteranother level of protection from gunk in your bore. Every serious rifleman has his own procedure for accuracy-testing rifles. Full . How long should a barrel cool between shots when group testing. Yesterday, I was trying to compare 2 different types of commercial ammo. Two flags placed downrange are positioned to allow me to see them in the field of view of the scope when its crosshairs are on the target. JavaScript is disabled. I hate sitting around when I could be shooting. If your goal is to get a reliable zero for hunting, you should allow the barrel to fully cool between each shot. I don't agree with cooling the barrel on carbons or larger profile barrels for accuracy purposes. Wind is blocked even less after they shed their leaves during winter. . Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. I also limit the number of rounds to 30 to 45. T0rtuga Premium Member JavaScript is disabled. Heat removal happens anytime moving a coolant with a delta t. Ambient is ambient. I have seen people waiting 2 minutes between shots. Is that 5 min between shots, Can I shoot 2 or 3 before needing it to cool? The wet rag thing sounded like it would work. All rifles must be inspected for conformance before the competition. If what you said were true the carbon would act like an insulator. Ordering a custom barrel, what do I need to know? I don't think this has any thing to do with barrel being warm at all. For instance, the .308 barrel that normally gives 4000 accurate rounds should now easily provide 5500 accurate rounds. I also try to do load development in moderate temps unless I feel it needs to be otherwise. TARGET STANDS I am only cooling to try to protect the throat for longevity reasons. I like it. If I can't stand to touch the barrel for 10 sec its too hot. Wow! The shot at the top center is after I adjusted the sight with a cool barrel. The Chamber Chiller company tailors them to the particular calibers. Cooling rate is continuous rather than the "shock" of a cold, wet, towel. JavaScript is disabled. If there happened to be a hot ember in the bore from the previous shot, this could cause the next powder load to ignite when its poured down the barrel. Because this rifle takes longer to heat up and is inherently stiffer to begin with, whip and mirage are less of a concern. I load my light barrel 6.5-284 pretty slow and shoot every 2 but it could be loaded faster and Id lengthen the timer. Oh PS to your question I stick to 30 seconds with full grip on the barrel. As expected from MagnetoSpeed, the RifleKuhl is engineered to the hilt. Barrels are meant to be shot. One Remington 700 in .223 has a 26" heavy barrel. It might take 2 minutes or it might take 20. It may not display this or other websites correctly. If the temps outside are too warm, I wait for another time, Eventually I plan on a carbon fiber barrel and Ill probably give it extra time just for peace of mind. All Shooting Times subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. Don't get the barrel much if any below ambient temperature. Has anyone tested the pro version of the chamber chiller? Squeeze the trigger 10, maybe 20, times uninterrupted, and your barrel heats up enough so that its harmonics go out of whack. #2. This event's continued success is attributed to the competitors who graciously volunteer time and service in various responsibilities. k, this is a very old school approachwhen I get to the range I stick the rifle sitting muzzle up in the gun rack. No matter how large or small your part, this tremendous volunteer force comes through year after year. Something is better than nothing. Review post# 17 above. When I shoot for accuracy during testing I have about a 5 sec per shot rythem for 5 shots only. As time has gone by I no longer try to eek out every last bit of speed from my guns. Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > Guns & Ammo Discussion: Load Development - barrel cooling We want it to get rid of the heat. We have shot 20 rounds in 60 seconds at matches and then packed up and head to another stage. The hotter the barrel gets, the longer it takes to cool off. I have never done anything except let it sit to cool or clean the bore. All rear open sights must be at least six inches forward of the barrel's breech end. for max barrel life how long would you wait between shots on say a rifle like a 338 lm or cheytac based case ? That might work for my practice shooting, or even load development (though somewhat inconvenient, last ladder test I shot 60 shots), but it wouldn't help much with competition. Don't worry about cooling the barrels. Only one person may shoot a rifle in each relay. March 5, 202310:00 am - 11:00 am Rotate between two or three rifles, shooting one while the others cool. Regardless of the time of year, the real trouble spot is a narrow gap in the left-side tree line at 215 yards. I use a battery powdered fan blowing on my barrel and sometime take a cooler with some ice water and dip a wash cloth in it and wipe my barrel down. It don't think it would hurt if I don't keep a steady blast, besides a tank doesn't hold a lot of air. Sharing in the Tradition of the Long Rifle in Pacific, Missouri. I'm in the same boat as you shooting usually just west of Mexicali/Calexico on the CA/Mexico border. This isn't your grandpa's muzzleloading system. For instance, if you use a sandbag, it should move freely on top of the chunk. If the cartridge a particular rifle is chambered for is available with match bullets, I try to shoot at least one of those loads. If shooting a match, I dont want to have to pull a wagon for my barrel cooler. Target distances ranged from quite close to as far away as 300 yards, so when accuracy-testing a new rifle or load, 10 and sometimes 20 shots per group was the norm. In this comparison the heat transfer rate will be directly related to the mass air flow rate since the cooling medium(ambient air) and the barrel will be the same. (The latter is also commonly described as a bunny-ear bag.) It may not display this or other websites correctly. The use of Shaders is permitted. Most of the groups i shoot are five rounds. I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death but would really appreciate your patience and information. With any delta T, your steel will change faster than carbon. lightbulb. I just wait a few minutes. I like to wait at least 5 to 10 minutes . General. You DO get a few questions from the other shooters, but most seem to think its a good idea. Step 2. If you are shooting a PRS or Silhouette competition rifle then shoot at least 5 shots right in a row to check grouping. When shooting at 300 yards, the first flag is positioned in line with that opening. Caliber = internal diameter of a barrel bore, outside diameter of a bullet. If the rifle will be used in the field, it is further tested by shooting over the type of rest it will likely be shot over out in the boonies. The correct placement of wind flags will vary among shooting ranges, but since most of my accuracy testing is done at the same range, I know exactly where they need to go there. A competitor's equipment is only allowed in the loading area during the relay within which they are competing. Each "Precision" rifle is guaranteed to shoot five, successive shots into 20mm at 100 meters, or it doesn't leave the factory. http://barrelcool.com/product/barrel-temperature-strips/#:~:text=Outside%20barrel%20temperature%20can%20be,life%2C%20and%20shoot%20smaller%20groups. But, if the ambient temp is less than 70 degrees, I'm not sure its worth the effort. When testing a new rifle, I almost always start by shooting factory ammunition if it is available. Joseph Von Benedikt is with Rafe Nielsen of Browning to take a look at a new X-Bolt series rifle. Then I take a probe thermometer (just like one from the kitchen) in the end of the muzzle. It is still going to remove air. As to rate of fire, I think if you keep it under 10 rounds per minute average you'll find that the barrel is only tollerably hot. Has anyone tried compressed air or a battery powered small fan? 3-18-2023 Saturday, 8am to Noon - Club Workday #1 That, even when moving through a barrel, doesn't do a whole lot for cooling. No more high point that causes barrels to bend it its axis as they and receivers heat up. Second Media Inc., 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. So my questing is how much can a group size improve by waiting a minute or 2 between shots vs quick follow up (assuming no change . Make like a WW2 machine gunner and urinate on it? Operated with a 12V battery. All but one of my guns wear custom tubesboth hunting and compitition. LOAD INFO - TGinPA Board.