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If he succeeded in doing that, Sauron would have been defeated because it was his saving anchor. With the more powerful becoming all the more corrupted. And so that's what Gandalf was pretending to do, while they were actually taking the Ring to Mt. They got the identity wrong, but the Stranger felt the direction about Rhn to be accurate. He had also extensively started studying the lore required to make his own ring of power. And they are similar to, if slightly less powerful than, the Maiar? You would have a situation where Saruman knows exactly where the Ringbearer is headed and Sauron knowing Saruman is suspiciously concentrated on the area from Parth Galen to the Black Gate. Yet, it's also possible that Sauron would have triumphed and regained the Ring for himself. You must log in or register to reply here. The other Rings of power could be used by anyone else varying only by the individual. That Saruman is nothing like the Stranger who falls from the sky in The Rings of Power. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. Sauron is the primary villain of The Lord Of The Rings. I never really understood how they fit into the picture - I presume the nine gave to their bearers some ability, but ultimately corrupted them and turned them into the nazgul, which I guess was their purpose. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. It allowed him to recover multiple times after his physical body got destroyed. For more information, please see our Here's a hypothesis: Yes, Saruman knew the lore of making such rings but not necessarily the technique (as anyone who has tried to recreate an article based on a knitting or crochet pattern found online can tell you!) Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0, TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History, Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News. For all things Tolkien, Lord of The Rings, and The Hobbit Press J to jump to the feed. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The thing is, that wouldn't be a simple task. *shrugs*. If the Stranger is actually Gandalf, think about it from a character development standpoint. He only knew an orc band was loose and could cause problems and he feared an alliance between Saruman and Sauron which would be bad for Rohan so off he went. See Palantr Wikipedia . (Letter 246). In Tolkiens work, Saruman went to Rhn, shortly after he arrived in Middle-earth, in factjust like the Stranger. Gandalf, however, likely took Saruman's position, not knowing that Saruman had invented the story of it washing out to sea and was looking for the One Ring for himself. By this Tolkien shows that disobedience for good reasons has merit. On one side the true allegiance of the Ring to Sauron; on the other superior strength because Sauron was not actually in possession, and perhaps also because he was weakened by long corruption and expenditure of will in dominating inferiors. Saruman had decided to abandon his mission as an Istari and join Sauron in subjugating Middle-earth. Hidden realms of elves in the past had undone the plans of Morgoth himself, and Sauron was not likely to let such a thing go unchallenged. I'm a little vague on this point. Even some of the imagery in his scenes screams Gandalf. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. What would happen if a Barrow-wight had taken the One Ring and why didn't they? It would have been the master in the end. and our But why do I think the Stranger is Saruman? This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Forces from Mordor and Rhun would have been sent to fight their way through Rohan, leaving Minas Tirith undefeated to the south. Why are trials on "Law & Order" in the New York Supreme Court? But now that he was back in Mordor, he was openly . 2) Saurman is defeated by Sauron and the ring is taken from him, destroying Saruman's mind. Follow her on Twitter and Instagram. Either way, the battle between them would have been a catastrophic lose-lose situation for everyone. I would think that Saruman, a Maia, would be in that category. Soon (convenient term, soon) I will begin on the second volume of The Lord of the Rings, The Two Towers.It consists of two 'books', The Treason of Isengard and The Ring Goes East.The first 'book' of the volume deals with the adventures of Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas as they go in search of Merry and Pippin; this puts them all in conflict with the traitorous wizard Saruman's machinations. First its a lucky hit, now its a super-human with a magical super-sword? How did Saruman become corrupted? The first and most obvious reason Galadriel gets to hang on to her Ring - Nenya, the Ring of Water - from beginning (i.e. To a lesser degree Faramir's disobedience also saved the Quest. Tolkien said of Saruman, also known as Curumo: The first to come was one of noble mien and bearing, with raven hair, and a fair voice, and he was clad in white; great skill he had in works of hand, and he was regarded by well-nigh all, even by the Eldar, as the head of the Order. If Saruman had not been corrupted in the first place, the war might have gone much easier for the Free Peoples. Without Gandalf, King Theoden would likely remain under the control of Saruman. It seems it was a mistake for the Ring to leave Isildur. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. -----Also check out our other channels!The 6th Ranger - (For all things Power Rangers! These are not some sort of machine gun, or beam weapon that is just leveled at the enemy, by anyone who happens to wear them. Obviously, the Uruk-hai didn't make it back to Isengard, and they didn't have the Ring anyway. What would happen if Gandalf had the ring? Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? This is the real reason the eagles question will never die: Its too appetizing for The Lord of the Rings fans. Five wizards came to Middle-earth, so the Stranger could be any of them. This one, too, was controlled by Sauron. Nori even said in the finale that the Stranger was there to help. Despite an erratic and feeble end, for long he was one of the wise, and for long desired the ring; he could not possibly have failed to consider Sauron's response. Sauron was not a run of the mill foe and an ordinary blade wielded by an ordinary man would not have sufficed. It's much more likely that Saruman would have used the One Ring for himself and tried to claim Middle-earth as his own. Whether he judged correctly is another matter, but I would expect it to be a contest. His Spirit would continue in some astral realm, and would use His real weapon: TIME. He writes about everything from NCIS to Stranger Things to The Walking Dead and everything in between. He disobeyed his king but he held his loyalty to his people and by doing so he inadvertently saved Middle-Earth. Saruman is my favorite figure of all time . )https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpgaqH-cKuqvfKr1NL-yudg-----Don't forget to check out our Official website!www.thebrokensword.co.ukIf you want to support the channel, you can help us on our Patreon page. Gil Galad, and the last alliance also defeated Sauron, without the help of the Maiar, as well. On February 26, 3019 Eomer, Third Marshal of the Riddermark, set out against orders from his king to hunt an orc band coming from the east. Too well studied, as it turned out, for Saruman gradually turned to evil himself, emulating Sauron's works. The images have been re-edited so I hope you enjoy! Why Rings of Powers Fight Scenes Are Boring. In Rivendell, Frodo all but offers the Ring to Aragorn, saying Then it belongs to you, and not to me at all! (FOTR260). If Saruman's Uruks had been successful and he had taken possession of the One Ring, how would have things turned out differently in Middle-earth? That he will never do now.". But if The Rings of Power already called dibs on Gandalf's origins, there's always the tale of what the grey wizard got up to between The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, a story so worthwhile . That's information that either could potentially use to tip the balance, but perhaps Saruman would also have had awareness that a contest with Sauron was one that he couldn't possibly win? First of all: Yes, you probably should watch at least The Two Towers before reading much further: that movie is all about Saruman's plans and schemes.. Having said that, there's a combination of things that have driven Saruman to act the way he does in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. The Mystics, believing the Stranger is Sauron, tell him he must go to Rhn to fully explore his powers. Anybody else who bore it (non-stop) would eventually be drawn to him, where he would get the Ring back. I don't think we have enough information to answer this with certainty. I think people project a kind of loaded weapon mentality onto the rings which is misleading. https://www.patreon.com/thebrokensword-----Also if you want to support in a different way then check out our Teespring page where we upload original designs for our merch! What if Saruman had never been corrupted? Saruman used the seeing stones(palintir) to keep up with Sauron, as did Boromirs Father (name slips me now), Sarumaon would be no more than a snivinling fool of Sauron. Sauron was stronger than Gandalf the Grey, but . No doubt he would have exercised all his powers searching the area from Parth Galen where the Ringbearer departed to the Black Gate. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Ap. 3 yr. ago. Sauron once again lay dormant for over a millennium in the Second Age, secretly preparing another attempt to take over Middle-earth. Even if Theoden triumphed at Helm's Deep in this scenario, Saruman would be relatively safe in Isengard and Aragorn would not be able to look into the Palantir which is what led Sauron to focus his attention in Aragorn's direction and not around his own borders. Other powerul magic users such as Galadriel, Gandalf & Saruman can use the Ring to increase their power as that is what it was forged by Sauron to do, but it will never truly be completely under their will because Sauron's evil will already exists in the Ring. Loyalty is an important theme in Tolkien's world and obedience to authority is paramount in a medieval setting as in Middle-Earth. Keep Your Powder Dry: Firearms for 5E Fantasy CampaignsNearly 40 firearms with customization options for 5E games, plus magic items, feats for gunslingers, and the alchemist character class! Even if Saruman won this hypothetical battle, it would be ultimately irrelevant. He says: "Even reckoned as a lord and captain Saruman has grown very strong Saruman also had a mind to capture the Ring for himself [Sauron] now has Isengard to fear as well as Minas Tirith" The word "fear" seems important here. Saruman wasnt an elf, or even a man. Some interesting conjecture, but you're forgetting that if anyone replaced Sauron as the "master" of the One Ruling Ring, they would sever Sauron's tie to the ring and essentially reduce him to an ineffectual spirit who could no longer interact with the physical world. Tolkiens complex writings and retcons dont reveal a crystal-clear answer about Saruman arriving first, but if you go by The Silmarillion, Saruman did. Posted September 4, 2007. mysticalblues said: My roommate met someone last week that had a ring that she got in St. Thomas. It's possible Saruman would have been able to defeat Sauron. By the time we meet Saruman in The Lord of the Rings, hes up to no good. What did Tolkien originally write? Meanwhile, Gandalf kept an eye on Bilbo and noticed that he was not aging. But if only one Istar has come to Middle-earth so far, Saruman is a strong candidate. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. We dont know any details about his activities in Rhn or his other easterly travels. In the chapter "the White Rider" (LOTR Book 3, chapter 5), shortly after Ugluk's foray has been defeated, Gandalf gives a detailed analysis of Saruman's motives and Sauron's concerns. If we have not credited an artist, it is because we could not find an owner of the art. Tolkien edited by Christopher Tolkien. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. But what if the Stranger is a different wizard we all know from The Lord of the Rings? After his friendship with Nori, that would hurt. What money is available for senior citizens? He did not fear Sauron, but rather was forbidden to contest with him directly. You are using an out of date browser. The Lord Of The Rings. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. There was a Winged Nazgul operating near the area as well on the other side of the Anduin and thus closer to Frodo. Whats the threshold of power for a wielder of the one ring to defeat Sauron? We don't know enough about the powers of the Ring, in the hands of an ambitious wizard how it might have worked as a "devastating weapon" (Letter 246), how, as a symbol, it might in Saruman's hands have affected Sauron's servants and vassals. The key thing to note is that Sauron, by the time of the War of the Ring, lacked the ability to take a. I would not be too sure that Sauron would be the victor, as Saruman spent long years in study of ring-lore. House of Dragons vs. How to show that an expression of a finite type must be one of the finitely many possible values? LEGO did such a great job with the printing on the figures! By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. The Silmarillion says Saruman was the eldest Istari and came first. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Come join us to discuss the works of Tolkien. Sauron would also realize the captured Halflings did not have the Ring so all the doubt surrounding Aragorn having it would be absent. The Palantri. Tolkien Blog - by Michael Martinez JavaScript is disabled. *shrugs*. Covering the hottest movie and TV topics that fans want. By clicking Accept All, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. If Saruman had the ring and he learned to master it, he could rule Sauron's armies and servants as it says in The Fellowship Of The Ring. Through them Tolkien shows Faramir and Eomer's quality was in not being blind followers of loyalty and obedience to king and father but seeing a bigger picture and being obedient to a greater purpose. They are not beasts. But it will still never truly be his & he will have to continually fight to dominate it as the One Ring wants to return to its master, who cannot be banished until the Ring is destroyed. [ST:TNG] The First Duty what if there had been no accident? Middle-earth & J.R.R. The three, which Celebrimbor made, were not made to gain dominion over others. Chief among the powers of the ring that were feared by the White Council was the fact that if Sauron put it on now, all that had been done by the Wise using the three rings would be revealed to him, as would their minds, if they did not take off the rings. What about Galadrial? Letter 246 describes a hypothetical confrontation between a hypothetical Ring-bearing Gandalf and Sauron: Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Had Isuldur done the wise thing, and pitched that sucker in the crack of doom, that would have been it. Rings of Power (and a touch of Wheel of Time), Ignore/Block Essentials, Paid Registrations by. Telchar, an uber Dwarven smith who lived in the first age, forged Narsil. At the beginning of the story, Saruman is more powerful than Gandalf. JavaScript is disabled. Today we jump back in time to one of our older videos at one of our What If scenarios! What exactly happened to Sauron when the Ring was destroyed? What if: One of the primarch's had landed on the world of Avatar the Last Airbender. But I've been thinking. Tolkien says in Letter 246 that the Ring is not only comparable to "a devastating weapon" (which Frodo doesn't know how to use) but also to "an object of terror in their religious cult, by which they had been conditioned to treat one who wielded it with servility". It may have taken a while to learn to use the Ring to its full potential, and Sauron would surely have put everything he had behind trying to get it back, but itd be iffy, and he certainly couldnt use the Nazgul or other ring-empowered creatures against the weilder of the One. Basically it took a super-human with a super-sword to chop the ring off of Sauron's hand and he only did that with a lucky hit. Seem's strange when the ring's main purpose was to rule over the rings/leaders? Sauron was the master ring-maker in LOTR, but Saruman also forged a ring of power so that he could eventually challenge the Dark Lord. What percentage of recruits fail boot camp? I recall the Narsil having been forged by the elves, using elvish magic. Knowing where he ends up would make the Strangers current journey all the more fascinating. **, And this kind of begs the question - What had been done with the three? Why Did Eru Give Men The Gift Of Death And Not to The Elves too? After that, in the Undying Lands, Sauron was more powerful. RELATED: Thranduil Was a Jerk - But Lord of the Rings' Only Dark Elf Was Actually Evil. We'll probably never know. He would simply wait and let the Ring do what it was made to do. So all of the vanilla staves will get a retexture that adds a new color depending on their enchantment. You must log in or register to reply here. For The War of the Rohirrim anime, one answer might draw on the "canon" of the Peter Jackson films. Blake Hawkins has written TV and movie features and recaps for CBR since March of 2021. I got down on bended knee at the top of the mountain and proposed. rev2023.3.3.43278. Indeed, Saruman needed no ring to become enslaved. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. He reasoned that his total control of Middle . Since both are immortal, Saruman is going to be tortured for a long, long, long, long, LONG time. The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power, A THE LORD OF THE RINGS Musical Heads to the UK Stage, LOTR: RETURN OF THE KING Returning to Theaters for 20th Anniversary, 5 Middle-earth Stories the New LORD OF THE RINGS Movies Should Tell, Go On a Journey with THE LORD OF THE RINGS ADVENTURE BOOK GAME, New LORD OF THE RINGS Movies in the Works (Yes, Really), MAGIC: THE GATHERING Headsto Middle-earth with LORD OF THE RINGS Set, Send Sauron a Letter with LOTR Black Speech Keyboard. Sorry, memory fails me ATM. If Im not mistaken, he is Vanyar? Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The Ring also has his - what does it say? It wasn't really a surprise. Unfortunately, Sauron had got on the wrong side of a particularly powerful race: the Nmenreans.The isle of Nmenr was a realm of men that sat apart from Middle-earth and those who lived there were more powerful than the men seen elsewhere in The Lord of . He regained his identity and seemingly his memories, but the Stranger did not say, Hi, Nori, I have a name and its Gandalf. His friendship with the adventurous Harfoot, his mannerisms, and some of his lines ring true for Gandalf the Grey. 5 Who controlled the Seeing Stone of Minas Anor? By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Either way, Saruman through torture or his Voice would have quickly learned everything about the Quest of the Ring. Gandalf found out that Saruman had abandoned his mission when the White Wizard asked him to join forces with Sauron. Behind Naruto, Gandalf stood straighter, and began to comb his beard with his fingers. How long before Sauron wrung out the truth from Saruman? On the other hand, if the Stranger is Saruman, consider that journey and how it makes his transformation all the more tragic. Seem's strange when the ring's main purpose was to rule over the rings/leaders? All the latest gaming news, game reviews and trailers. Luckily, Gandalf refused, and the rest of the trilogy didn't play out in Saruman's favor.