if the car would be faster with the 6 speed auto vs the 10 speed auto. With 10 forward gears to choose from, the 10L80 transmission is able to reduce the fuel consumption of a high horsepower engine. Check out delicious pictures and movies from Peter Mrup, Dennis Andersson and Svein Pedersen. These tight gear ratios not only allow for lightning fast upshifts and downshifts. Do you thing the 10L80 can be beefed up using 10L90 parts? Heres what we mean: Lets assume we have a TH-400 trans in our Chevelle with a 4.10:1 rear gear. R.F. There are swaps for the 6L80 and 6L90 but they dont support all the Trailblazers. And you are correct the converters in these units are experiencing a high percentage of failure and are more problematic than normal. Spin losses (i.e. Like earlier automatics, the 6L80 features one line pressure tap available for testing and diagnostic purposes. Many who work in the dealerships have become privy to the immediate failures that occur in this unit. Indirectly affects shift pressure control. So whats the most common failure thats seen time and again with these? Problem Owners may experience an ATF leak coming from under the vehicle. Honda CR-V Hybrid Racer Is an 800-HP Test Bed. It was created to help GM meet ever more demanding CAFE regulations on their vehicles. Trans temps climbed to 195 and has stayed there ever since. In this video I show how to change flush the transmission fluid and filter on a 2012 Chevrolet Silverado with 6.2L with the 6 speed automatic 6L80E Other common 6L80E transmission problems include: Conceptually, locking the converter should help the mph trap speed by reducing slippage. In fact the input torque rating is 440 lb. By reducing the rpm drop between gears, the engine remains within its power band. It does not have a direct 1:1 ratio like the 4L80E and 4L60E, which is worth noting. Thats right, you can find a variation of this Ford GM 10-speed automatic transmission in the Ford Mustang GT and the Chevrolet Camaro ZL1! Since 2003, Jeff has held various positions at Car Craft (including editor), has written books on small block Chevy performance, and even cultivated an impressive collection of 1965 and 1966 Chevelles. Weight 230+ lbs (weight varies depending on application) The height of the standpipe tube attached inside the transmission to the bottom of the pan sets the oil level. The dipstick has three different fill marks, A, B and C. These fill marks are model dependent and should be verified with factory information when the fluid level is checked (Figure 11). And now, with some of these transmissions coming out of warranty, the aftermarket will soon begin to see issues that occur with them beyond their first years of life during their aging process. As such, Sonnax has a good view of both sides of the pump, so we are intimately involved with engineering solutions to both trending transmission AND converter issues. $ 158.00 Select options. Maximum engine input torque for the 6L80 is 440 ft. lbs. I work on other peoples vehicles for a living. Shift the transmission to Reverse. First, check for updated programming for the TCM strategy. * WILL ALLOW USE . It can also be found in the Lincoln Navigator. As the installer was pumping fluid into the transmission from the right side of the vehicle, he was having a difficult time getting it full. Why the Sonnax forged covers and pistons solve the problem. None of the clutch packs can engage, and there is no fail-safe operation. You are browsing camaro6. Its been on the road for a few years, and were starting to see some common failures for this unit. The 6L90 transmission is slightly longer and taller than a comparable configuration 6L80 due to its beefier internals. LS 3 has a Big Turbo on it, I am only worried about rear gear, rest I have help with, Car never went over 130 or it red lined with Big Block, Never was a highway car, It has a 373 or a 323 in it, Not a 411 I know that much, Thats all, Im building a gen one Camaro and Ive purchased lt4 supercharged motor for it I was wanting to know if you know the difference in size for 10 speed transmission to a turbo 400 I need to know how much to raise my floor pan at tunnel and about how much fire wall to cut out. In contrast, when the 10-speed transmission is at heavy or max throttle, the small steps keep the engine closer to the horsepower peak for the best performance. Copyright 2006-2020 GEARS Magazine. Related Articles ATI introduces new e-clutch hub for ZF8HP51 Sonnax adds new stator support bushing for Ford 6F35 Alto adds to intermediate clutch PowerPack line for GM transmissions According to Sonnax, the heavy OE LFS, GFX announced a new pump component for GM Powerglide models, covering several vintage model years: 1950 through 1973. How quickly time passes by. GM LS1 - LS9 / Chrysler Gen III and Viper V10, Conversion. Commanded engine torque: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. This seems to indicate that there will be other 10L80 transmissions that will be experiencing this same new kind of pump noise condition. It appears that GM has put a very minor taper into the cover and possibly the piston as well. I have a 2wd 2000 regular cab stepside bed Silverado that used to make closer to 600-650 wheel horsepower with the D1-SC Procharger and 4L80E. The 6l80 was designed to handle the torque output of some of GM's biggest late-model LS (gen 4) and LT (gen 5) v8 engines, but a number of design flaws created most of the common 6L80E transmission problems. Before we get started, lets cover the basics. We had to use a spacer from Advanced Adapters but otherwise they are the same. - Critical wear areas and vacuum test locations: GM 10L and Ford 10R series. So if there are any possible ways to upgrade the RPM Level 6 4L70E in my 416 CI Trailblazer, the 4L80E in my Silverado with a LS2 with heavily worked and milled 243s, Ported and polished Fast LSXRT 102mm intake, and the Caprice PPV I am looking for the right one. This transmission is the result of a collaborative effort with General Motors. The Ford 10R80 is a new 10-speed, rear wheel drive transmission that's available in several models, beginning in 2017. I think the extra gears and the taller overdrive would be nice but I wonder if it's worth all the effort. Application RWD & 4WD / AWD Why the thin woven carbon clutch doesnt typically fail in the 4L60-E TMBX. Brake pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling, Air/fuel management adaptive values reset. 3) 6L80E with fixed output flange is about 2 1/2" shorter than 4L60E and about 3 1/2" shorter than 200-4R. Special tools are often needed when diagnosing transmission problems and overhauling units. This is the abridged version of my problem. Its interesting how the new 8- and 10-speed automatics have essentially turned the traditional powertrain ratio scheme 180 degrees. Aisin AY6 6-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. The 6L80 is a modular transmission, featuring removable bellhousings and tailhousings for interchangeability with the GM 90 Degree engines and other potential engines in the future. and GCVW of 21,000 lbs. $3,245*. or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. Intermittent Fail Safe, Codes, Related Concerns and Solutions, The ZF 8-Speed Transmission Fluid and Filter Change, Tackling Clutch Failure in the GM 6L80/90, Change is in the Air Installing Updated Calibrations. How is this different from the GM 6L80E transmission that is used in the Corvette or in the newer GM trucks? Its only about a 3/4-inch band around the inside circumference of the converter. The thought is that the bowl shape of the TMBX is better suited towards a more even apply, and because its thinner, the TMBX piston has the ability to flex and better conform to the front cover. Now he serves as a regular contributor to OnAllCylinders. However, at light pedal or road load, single-step upshifts will occur. This means that its designed for rear wheel drive vehicles only. In addition to developing innovative, quality repairs for transmissions, Sonnax is also the premier, full-line supplier of components to the torque converter remanufacturing industry. Codes P0741 or P1744 may or may not set in the PCM or TCM (depending on application). 6L80E / 6L90E 4-5-6 Clutch. The subject is a rather common electrical fault that may occur on the PCS line pressure solenoid circuit, which results in max line pressure. The 4L80 features a 310 mm torque converter. Sticking valves and sticking CIDAS solenoids are becoming more common concerns with these units. To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. The complaints may be difficult to duplicate. GM has been useless to say the least, and waited me out (now off warranty). As a transmission rebuilder, you know that flatness and rigidity of both apply and reaction surfaces are key to long clutch life in transmission clutch packs its the exact same in the torque converter. It features dynamic veins and a rotating wheel driven by a steel gear with it's own filter. Did they release much info about it on the trucks? Trying to decide if its worth upgrading for the 10L80 alone. Bolt and gasket inlcuded. GM states, ". The transmission can also signal the engine to drop power during a shift if there's a possibility of clutch damage. Im not tuned ( not yet anyway), however, if I knew then what I know today, I probably would have went for the M6. A used 10L80 is pulled from a wrecked vehicle, so theres no telling what may be wrong with it, or how long it will last. In doing this, we evaluated another GM unit the 4L60-E TMBX to see if we could pick up any clues. Your cooperation with this program is greatly appreciated. But I was su unhappy with it I sold a bunch of parts and began changing the built. Comparing that to our old TH-400 combo, wed need 5.40:1 rear gear to equal the overall First Gear ratio in the new Corvette. This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. * An extension housing p/n 8673406 (old p/n 24214689) is available for the TH700R4/4L60 transmission that moves the rear transmission mount to the same position as a TH400 (short-style 4" tail) or TH200-4R transmission. After a prolonged drive time, DTC P0752 Pressure Control Solenoid A Stuck On. 6L80, 6L90 Transmission Tech Advisory: Consider an Updated Converter in Your Next Rebuild We all know that automatic transmission failures can have many root causes. The 8L90 and 6L80 have the same size output shaft and mounting pattern. Pre-Owned. Larry Callahan Founder/Administrator of Pro-Touring.com, G-Machines.com and HostMyJunk.com To advertise on Pro-Touring.com click here Im thinking 3.73. Once there is any metal-to-metal on the TCC surface at all, its usually a short time before debris wipes out the clutch completely. Read more columns from our Shift Pointers series here. Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? Smith began writing for Car Craft magazine in 1979 and became editor in 1984. Engine speed: Directly affects shift scheduling, Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) control, line pressure, and transmission diagnostics. The Transmission Control Module (TCM) is an adaptive learning, 32-bit computer integrated into the valve body of the 6L80 / 6L90 and communicates with the Engine Control Module via the onboard vehicle CAN bus network. NonStop-Transmission. Your car is quick! Please help>> I have a 2013 GMC yukon. or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. The new Third gear in the TCI trans is 1.57:1, which is then overdriven to create Fourth gear which is 1.57 x 0.75 = 1.18:1 which is just 18 percent away from direct drive 1:1, which becomes Fifth gear. The readers on this site are a pretty sharp bunch. Statements on 6L80E trans with LS engine. The 6L80 / 6L90 uses three-way solenoids and variable bleed solenoids for improved shift quality. For the 4L60-E TMBX, the pistons are .115" thick, and for the 6L80, 6L90 JMBX, the pistons are significantly thicker at .150". Its the a10 (10L80) from the Silverado. But once he had the parts and the job was complete, the noise issue was resolved, confirming the cause to be the idler gear spinning around the ball bearings outer race. Jeff Smith: The TCI six-speed automatic is indeed a revamped or upgraded 4L80E. Within only a year, GM had introduced an even stronger variant of the 6L80; the 6L90, RPO code MYD. The General Motors 6L80-E & 6L90-E transmissions are among the most diverse and capable transmissions of their time; being used in everything from exciting muscle cars to family SUV's. In this Drivetrain 101, we'll analyze all of its most prolific problems, solutions and upgrades. Fluid Capacity 13 qts, First 4.70 4. Looking for parts number : new shaft, copling et seal and where to find them. Now controlled by computers, the E series transmission allowed for a wide range of tuning options. What is most welcome about it is that it is a very durable, functional and impressive transmission assembly and appears to have a terrific prospect with GM and the aftermarket community. Can I assume my car has the General Motors GL80 with the 4.02 first gear? The 10L80 moniker is decoded. Since buying the car I have been trying to learn a bit about the auto trans. To achieve this flip-flopped damper orientation in the JMBX, the profile and shape of the piston is radically different from the TMBX. Established Member. Stock capacity . The 4L60E was the first generation of transmission to work with a Gen III Vortec or LS motor. Our simulations reveal that this is worth anywhere from 0.10 to perhaps 0.15-second in a quarter-mile comparison between a stock 4L80E and a TCI Six-Speed. Thanks to the optimal gear spacing, the engine RPM only drops approximately 20% when the 10L80 changes gear. should check for clearance. TCRA Annual Seminar Coming to Charlotte this April! The Chevrolet Performance 6L80E trans comes with a set of wiring harness adapters and a flash drive that is used to configure the transmission to be used behind a GM LS engine in a rear wheel drive application. If you are tearing down a new job and cant find any hard part failure that would result in the amount of metal you have in the pan, its just about certain that the inside of the torque converter looks like the disaster area shown in Figure 1. The 6L80 has surprised us power transmission aficionados with its wholesale adoption of new and very different technologies. Tenth 0.64 lbs., with a respectable GVW of 15,000 lbs. Nothing but problems with it big clunks, engine revs up before grabbing a gear. Although the basic engineering is the same, the GM 10L80 and Ford 10R80 each have proprietary control software, along with a few other differences that are suited for each specific application. When other diagnostic trouble codes are present, there can be different, specific drivability concerns caused by the failure management program. GM LS1 - 9 and Chrysler/Mopar Gen III & Viper V10, Chevrolet Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Chrysler Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Ford Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Torque Converters with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, TH700R4 / 4L60E / 4L65E Stage II - Stage V, 6L80E / 6L90E Frn Std till 1000Hp version, 6L80E / 6L90E From Stock to 1000Hp version. Fifth 1.52 That certainly holds true for the 6L80, 6L90. I use this vehicle to tow a 20 ft 10k trailer that I use to carry a 5500lb tractor. 1. Online Buyer's Guide Account. You know where this is going yup, its the converter. Power Pack Only, for Power Hub | 195756-7754. Indirectly affects shift control. The ideal upgrade for modified performance vehicles, Sonnax 3-bolt adapter flange yoke kit T35-GMFD-01K makes it easy to convert a two-piece driveline to a one-piece, U-joint-style driveline. What is your recomendation for towing? The idea behind this conversion offers multiple overlapping advantages. I am currently planning on a high compression LS2 and a progressive nitrous kit but before another 4L80E goes in there is a 6,8, or 10 speed not an option? I am interested in enhancing my vehicles performance. Solution This 10L80 transmission problem could be the result of a failed oil cooler line fitting retaining bolt. Then it can upshift to one of its three overdrive gears for maximum fuel economy. The check engine light might be on, and the customer complains of a slipping sensation with intermittent clunks. Do you know does the aftermarket have a fix? This creates the situation where the engine drops less rpm from First to Second gear. One needs to realize that the stamped covers are not all that flat to begin with. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? all that is needed is a Throttle position signal and Engine RPM.