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Powered by Invision Community, https://www.reddit.com/r/Armyaviation/comments/gxcx3o/10_year_adso_is_official/. change without notice to me. I see three and four star Generals with less, HOW?! Actually, the option to revert to Warrant Officer does exist. Having looked at these options, lets go back to our original thought: If you missed your shot at the Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path are you screwed? On this career path, Stan is most likely to leave young kids at home with his spouse while he deploys. Often times these decisions being made do more harm than good, and cause a tremendous amount of work (just look at our administrative packet processes). However, Army aviation should not be compared with the other military branchesnot least because of the widely varying costs of producing pilots. More career Enlisted apply than street to seat on a yearly basis. We want as many applications as we can, so if anybody has any questions, be sure to contact that warrant officer recruiting team, Kearns said. Other branches have had 10 year ADSOs for a long time. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Getting in just under the wire. Branch of Choice: Your BRADSO obligation runs consecutively with your flight school ADSO and your commitment will run out to about the 10 year point. Why would you stay in the Army where you barely get to be a normal human, where you could make twice the pay, work half the amount, and actually get to live a somewhat normal life? Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Lets assume though that Stan can get hired by a unit, and is scheduled to start UPT as soon as his regular ADSC is up. The severity of the decline in recruiting will be unknown until the recruiting data comes in from the first affected class of cadets and warrant officer candidates. If you go to a civilian school and the Army fully or partially funds that course, you will incur 3 times the school time for ADSO if the course is over 60 days. Back To Top The USMA/ROTC graduating cadets will make the decision on the 12 year commitment in 2021. Laws and regulations that govern military personnel may If Stan becomes an engineer in the Air Force, hed probably have to attend some sort of training right after graduating from college. I was just curious if the numbers are stillsimilar. As a result, the US Army Aviation Center of Excellence initiated a survey to better inform future incentive and quality of life programs designed to increase retention.. What is the real answer? The Palace Chase program exists specifically for Active Duty pilots willing to make an early commitment to continue their service in the Guard or Reserve. Final thoughts the social aspect of the Army has never been worse. The pay and benefits arent bad, and patriotism also factors in for most of us. I like the idea of the Ultimate career path because it still allows you to. Thank you for your time and have a great rest of your day! I want to do it for as long as I can. So now the prior Enlisted must do at least 11.5 years and advance to the grade of W3. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Is it only for new guys coming in? The ARMY should allow ATP for all prior service men willing and fit to fly. But, we want as many people as we can get to apply. Has this officially started? Then it gets worse: Over the past 19 years, an Active Duty pilot has also been likely to spend half or more of those operational assignments deployed. There's definitely a balance issue, and I suppose the grass is always greener on the other side. That's my issue (age waiver). Anyone who does a modicum of research will quickly discover that our aviation culture is objectively inferior to the other services. Well look at three cases: Although each of these career paths has potential for almost infinite variation, this diagram represents likely versions of each: Looking at these side by side, its clear why #1 is the Ultimate option. Today were going to compare the more common Active Duty career path with the Ultimate one that Ive recommended so heavily. I'm thinking Army will start pushing dates to the right as much as possible to achieve its newfound maximum retention. The consensus seems to be that if you graduate flight school in FY 2021, you accrue the 10 year ADSO. Army Pilots put up with less Army BS and get paid more. self refer to ASAP, mental health, yea you can get out but you're not going to fly on the outside. I'm about to retire from the Air Force as an engineer, O-4, mostly dest and staff job. However, has he really had a better home life than them? But then again, it's 4 more years of employment or should I say deployments. Yes, , and its important to get there as quickly as you can because, . First, as we just mentioned, you only have to worry about one job flying one aircraft for Uncle Sam. Ideally, you should enlist with one of those units as soon as youre old enough and serve part-time while you complete college. I have done more CTC rotations and in general "useless bs" since being aviation than I ever did infantry. The big gotcha of the Active Duty pilot career path is that on the day you earn your wings, you also get hit with a 10-year Active Duty Service Commitment (ADSC). The OPTEMPO is higher now than it was at the height of GWOT. I just want to stop leaving my family all the time! Deployments are great flying, but terrible on a family. Be older than 18, but not more than 33 years at the time of board selection (Active Component (AC), USAR, and ARNG) . "Army Aviators don't want to stay in the Army even though we pay them less, deploy them more, and treat them worse than their peers in other branches and civilian careers, so we will just force them to stay in longer. This of course will do nothing to fix the problem of toxic leaders, poor assignment choices, or any of the other issues. There are more than enough fully qualified CAREER ENLISTED personnel from the 5 services, waiting in the wings, so to speak, to apply for the WOFT program. While there are some top performers that will elect to pursue the branch because they plan on a career from the beginning, there are far more that may be hesitant or undecided about committing to a decade of their professional lives to a niche field when they're only 22 or 23 if they aren't already passionate about everything aviation. pay, allowances, benefits, and responsibilities as a member of the (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in 47.) What I would like to add is almost the opposite of some of these comments. The upper age limit to enter flight training is established in law and requires Congressional action. This 10 year commitment will definitely dissuade him from the Army. For anyone interested in becoming a warrant officer, individuals should contact a warrant officer recruiter or visit the Armys Warrant Officer Recruiting website. This means a steady paycheck and decent home life, except that as the newest pilot in the unit Stan is at the top of the list to deploy if the squadron gets sent downrange. army aviation 10 year adso. Your appointment to W1 is a conditional appointment until you graduate flight school so you will revert to whatever enlisted rank you held prior to WOCS. I wouldnt put it past B Co to drop incorrect information and later say we didnt say that.. While a longer ADSO may help from looking solely at the numbers, it won't be effective at retaining quality talent. If you want to fly the U-2, you must start on Active Duty. The Army can increase this to 100% with no problem whatsoever if needed. 10 is nuts. That's what the Army was counting on. Once he identified some units in which hes interested in, hed need to start. This can exceed a 6 year obligation. The Army will continue to honor all GRADSO contracts for officers from YGs 2006-2013. Unfortunately, it will likely not have the opportunity to do so due to the negative impact it will have on retention in the near term. This used to be unheard of. Posted in these groups: Pilot Officers Warrant Officers Anything and everything related to or affecting US Army Aviation. Gen. Michael McCurry, the director of Army aviation for the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff G-3/5/7,who said in September, One question I often get asked is, are the airlines impacting your shortfall? So here I am, considering branching aviation when all of a sudden.BAM! Aviation Bonus (AvB) Program. The service should find a better way of addressing its shortage of pilots. In the current COVID crisis, those years may soon make the difference between having a great job and getting kicked to the curb as a furlough. Nope. Why or why not? Our nation needs brave men and women willing to use Air Power to murder our enemies and break their shit. If hed gone to UPT right after college, its more likely that hed get a lot of his deploying done before his kids were that old, or even before they were all born. I like the idea of the Ultimate career path because it still allows you to earn a 20-year military retirement.. So the recruitment piece has not historically been our challenge, it has been capacity and production. But what if the new ADSO invalidates this assumption? Glad I retired when I did. Army rescinds COVID-19 vaccination requirements, $84 million contract awarded for Excalibur replenishment, Army officer part of newly resumed cooperation for International Space Station, Chief Warrant Officer 3 Sarah Stone is just one of four, Army CIO speaks at Army Europe and Africa 2022 Cybersecurity Summit, Transcript: Media Roundtable with Mr. Douglas Bush, ASA for AL&T, July 27, 2022, Transcript: Media Roundtable with Dr. Raj Iyer, Army Chief Information Officer, and LTG John B. Morrison, Jr., Army Deputy Chief of Staff G-6 June 09, 2022, Vietnamese-American service members parallel paths to the American dream, Bengali chief warrant officer finds the American dream through serving, Soldiers inspire new Army directive on parenthood, pregnancy and postpartum policies, U.S. Army STAND-TO! Aviation has always been a highly desirable branch, and gaining a slot has been a matter of performance or differentiation from peers (whether OML or via a competitive application process). The answer is clear. Hopefully with the new 10 year ADSO aviation will assess more senior NCOs. Guess what? The DoD report to Congress included a description of Air Force efforts to assess the problem: The Air Force gathered data on what drives separations from an October 2015 Fighter Pilot Retention Air Force Smart Operations for the 21st century event, the 2015 Air Force Exit and Retention surveys, the August 2017 Dedicated Aircrew Retention Teaming Summit, and a series of three aircrew retention crowdsourcing surveys sent to 9,000 aircrew members that culminated in March 2018. Im scheduled to graduate, 1st or 2nd week of September. By collecting data and then improving quality of life and quality of service with targeted retention initiatives, the Army will not just increase retentionthe positive changes will increase the appeal of serving as a pilot in the Army, and recruiting will increase as well. His deployment vulnerability continues for even a couple of years after his seasoning orders are over. Yes, life there is fantastic, and its important to get there as quickly as you can because Seniority is Everything. . I dont think I wouldve taken the 10 Year ADSO, considering that Id just now be ALMOST complete with 10 yrs aviation service. There's the technical expertise that goes along with it as well. Well, the short answer is, we dont know. The Army increased monthly pilot pay from a maximum of $850 per month to $1000 per month, offered $35,000 annual bonuses to qualified warrant officers who extend for three years, and reduced combined training center rotations to two per twelve-month period for each combat aviation brigade. F-22 crew chief: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/4798866/f-22-europe. You must understand, the Army has an ace in the hole when filling the Warrant Officer aviation pipeline. A regular Active Duty pilot career path. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Apache course end? This means that a BCT that goes to a CTC once a year always demands CAB support. One year dedicated to reset, one to training, one to deployment. With this data, the Army can tailor solutions to address the issues that cause pilots to leave. The AvB is essential to retain Officers with an Army aeronautical rating, who are critical to the overall success of the Army's mission. I'm retiring in two years and it's not even to go to the airlines! Were you part of the 6 year or 10 year ADSO group? ADSO stands for Active Duty Service Obligation. I would have stayed in for another 10+ years if I had the opportunity to revert to Warrant Officer and fly more, but that opportunity doesn't exist. Cookie Notice Its important to note that Stans theoretical plan might have allowed him to obtain the 750 hours needed for an R-ATP about 7 years after graduating from college, but thats not competitive for getting hired at a major airline. I bet less than 400 WOFT selected are non prior service on a annual basis. His administration's definition of readiness was turning maximum amount of red chicklets on spreadsheets to green, sending people over and over to the field and CTCs without any break, and endless rotations to Korea and Europe. Aviation continuation pay 2 . They just can't have over 8 years TIS without a waiver. It further acts as a disincentive to those who would like to do the mission, but are unwilling to sacrifice a decade of their time in the event they don't like the lifestyle. All in all, this track has the potential for less family stability than his Active Duty pilot counterparts. Its a lot to ask. Ideally, hed also earn his Instrument Rating, and build as much experience as possible. Hah oh good catch. I wonder how this will effect street to seat recruitment for WOFT. I ended up not joining because they increased the ADSO. for a discussion of these options and their advantages.) Although 10 years of Active Duty feels like a long time, its not that much longer than the alternatives. It doesn't matter that the WOFT contract I signed this week states that it is a 6 year ADSO - the Army can do and change what it wants. is working as an Admission Liaison Officer for the USAF Academy. Although neither has been officially announced, the Army is rumored to be considering two proposals: a provisional status for warrant officer candidates until they graduate flight school and an increase in time-in-grade to make chief warrant officer 2. and our That is completely and totally gone. The future of Army aviation depends on retaining the pilots in whom it invests so much. We are always either training or deploying. Brennan Randelis a captain in the United States Army and is the former commander of Alpha Company, 4-2 Attack Battalion stationed at Camp Humphreys, South Korea. I would never have signed a 10 year ADSO for army aviation. Exit surveys are important, but those only capture the opinion of those whom the Army has already lost. The program offers an incentive to remain on active duty in aviation service for either 3 or 5 years, beginning at ADSO expiry or contract approval date, whichever is later. There are many complexities in these advanced helicopters, which translates to increased costs in flight hours, maintenance, and training requirements, Kearns said. I know there are exceptions to the rule, and I know some people haze junior warrant officers. The Army must also capture the opinions of those it can still retain. If you graduate after 1 Oct 2020 expect a 10 year service obligation. What are a few of the issues which the Army could resolve for aviators? A large number of aviation personnel have a lot of passion and dedication to the mission, but that can only last so long when your life consists ONLY of the mission. That hesitation will open up slots for others further down an OML or with less stellar accomplishments, potentially creating other issues related to performance or aptitude. Your flight school ADSO is based on when you graduate WOBC and pin on your flight wings. If pilots today are so unhappy that they are leaving in numbers higher than expected, why would prospective pilots accept a much longer service obligation for that same experience? The pay raise was the first in two decades to help balance pilot numbers at all ranks and stay competitive with the civilian market. At least 70% are not degree holders and they come from all 5 branches of the military. Why not allowing retired personnel to do what they always wanted? My family got to live in England for three years and it was fantastic! They can surely find that amount in the Enlisted ranks if WARRANTED. So got word that it only affects WOs that complete WOCS after 1 Oct 2020. But ifonline discussions are any indication, this ADSO will turn away a lot of prospective pilots. b. I remember when they tried to get aviators out of the "sack" flight suit and into Nomex BDUs to make them more soldierly. Wonder if you can get out early if NOT making CW3 or must you hang around. Graduate School Program: Only 20% of the Aviation Branch allocation for ROTC and West Point can receive the Graduate School Option. The report focused on the unmet demand for pilots in the commercial aviation sector that has attracted military pilots. While I continue to assert this is far better than becoming an Active Duty pilot through the USAF Academy, ROTC, or OTS, I worry that Ive done people a disservice by making the Active Duty pilot career path seem too unattractive. We need people with your background, dedication and professionalism in the warrant officer cohort. Hes likely deployed at least 3 times, if not more, and has also spent many weeks TDY. Serving on Active Duty has plenty of advantages, and even offers some highly-desirable opportunities that you cant get anywhere else. Comments will be moderated before posting to ensure logical, professional, and courteous application to article content. Lets compare these options to see why. Increasing the ADSO, though, does not require datait is guaranteed to increase retention. Especially if they view retention as a big enough problem to justify an additional 4 year commitment from aviators. This plan assumes that Stan can get hired by a Guard or Reserve unit at this point. The consensus seems to be that if you graduate flight school inFY 2021, you accrue the 10 year ADSO. Back then the Army had a hard-on for pilots. New ADSO order goes into effect 03JUN saying: "Hey, buddy, you wanna fly? This doesnt exactly seem legally right. A Talk With The US Armys Underground Warfare Expert. 10 years after flight school graduation. An ADSO twice as long as other branches (for academy grads) or 6+ years longer than ROTC counterparts is only going to deter quality officers that view an additional obligation as a loss of opportunity for careers beyond the service. However, we have to look at more than just the number of years involved. Sometimes that's necessary, but there's got to be some balance. This is the amount of time that an officer must serve on active duty. With a 10 year ADSO and an 8 year max time in service requirementit significantly reduces the in house pool as well. I'd sign a 15 year ADSO if they gave me an age waiver (I'm only 35 not 65!). If I am reading this correctly, this applies to officers that attend initial flight school after October 1st 2021. The Army says it needs the UH-72 for training because it teaches the use of glass cockpit and other advanced technology. Meanwhile students don't do touchdown autorotations and other traditional flight maneuvers. Warrant Officer Candidate School is a five-week program. I will still try to join but maybe that's because I'm retarded, Guess my packet will go back on the share drive. I don't want to mess with my retirement, but would love a chance to fly for my country. West Point graduates have a 5 year commissioning ADSO. If the civilians don't want to join, not a problem. If you havent already read, Welcome back to Part 2 of our series about career progression for Air Force pilots, from the pilot perspective. You incura 6-year ADSO for completing WOBC and also for completing Initial flight training. Im a turd for putting 2021. This puts you right at your commissioning ADSO plus the three-year CSP ADSO. Reading this in Jan 21, after 10 months of pandemic lockdown. However, on the surface, we see that Stans plan is likely to get a pilot to the airlines a couple of years before his peers. Commercial airlines offer higher salaries, more career control, and stabilization.